Rane Longfox

How many 40-year-olds do you know who are big fans of GTA? Books have a much wider audience.

(I know you weren't saying they should be banned. I was just quoting your post as the most apropriate to make my point with. Thought of it a while ago, but I had to find a context)

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Leto

Err, as almost all the 40 years olds I know are in professional context and are boys, I'd say most of them ? Anyway as they work in IT field it's not really representative.
Among the young and not so young adults (18-35 years old), the ratio between books and videogame is thinning. We all have known videogame since childhood.
On a personal note, I don't like this game - not because of the violence, but simply because I prefer RTS and RPG.

Rane Longfox

Yeah, biased sample


Surely there are more people who play video games who read the odd book that people who read lots of books and occasionally "pick up" a video game? For budget reasons if nothing else.

Or maybe i'm too generous in my imagination of the world's level of intellectual activity, but I think you'll find that more people read books than play computer games, even now...

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Leto

I'll check the lattest figures tomorrow if I have time. I too still think books are still dominant but I'm not sure. Besides the figures won't take into account the illegal copies of games.

Rane Longfox

Or illegal printing of the books

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Leto

you mean those books in Vatican inferno ?

Rane Longfox

Not specifically. But illegal downloading of e-books, etc... I believe there are a number of book versions of Kazaa... Don't know for sure though. No one makes a fuss about them because the media are like, "Pfft. Books. Who carse, dude. BorING!"

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Leto

Did you pry on my comp' recently ?

Anyway, as nobody has real figures on downloading (mp3, movies, games, books and whatever) it'll be hard to count them.

Most of the books available on Kazaa, except best-sellers as Da Vinci code and J.K.Rowling, are in the public-domain anyway : Jules Verne, Shakespeare plays, and so on. Could worth a little info digging... Thanks for the idea !

Rane Longfox

Heheh. Yeah, I can read your mind. And your hard-drive. I am the uber-geek

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Space Monkey

This is a really interesting thread.

I'm divided here, because I'm a media junkie. Love books, occasionally love games, love films - however, I'm of the majority who can discern between reality and fiction. But the fact remains that not all people can, and you don't get ratings that say Not for sale to sociopaths or Mandatory reality, personality and IQ test required prior to purchase, and some people are without a doubt swayed into acts of violence by the casual nature of it in popular media.

I'm really puzzled as to the way the classification systems work - for example, how do most of Tarantino's films get the go ahead and yet Ken Russells 'The Devils' get banned for years? (I know this is about games, but games are movies are books in the sense that if you control one fix, you have to control them all. Although this doesn't seem to apply to books...)

In todays climate, I think the age ratings are appropriate, and should be enforced with the same strictness that film ratings are. You can't come up with an absolute solution, because everything is available to anybody who chooses to pursue it. Any teen can get any game if they want it bad enough, no matter what restrictions they place short of banning it outright. It boils down to a combo of parental guidance and law. And in the case of many killers and violent people, they had none of the former and cared little for the latter, probably as a result.

Lee

I guess the only additional thoughts I have on this subject is that I wouldn't be against the idea that the purchasing age of "M" games be lowered to 16 or 17 considering, by that age, a normal and rational person has already formed concrete definations of social and anti-social behavior.

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Neon

Also there's the issue of mixed "rating systems" among countries. The US is funny to me because people love creating an uproar about pushing a rating. Example: Super Bowl halftime and Janet Jackson's partially exposed breast. We're still feeling the heat from censors for that, yet you see worse things everyday on advertisements for "male erection problems" or two women discussing which tampon is best for them. Sex is the double standard that keeps this country in a high pitched fervor. Along those same lines, you can show a male chest nude but not a female's. Yet in other European countries this is not the case. So with that rant finished, all I'm saying is that ratings (for good or ill) are also based upon the context of what country you live in.

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WorldRuler

Look at Japan, they are more imersed in video fames to begin with, but also they have far more controversial games than those in the US. However, the total deaths of in Japan in the past year was less than 100.

The point is violence in games does not carry over into the world. Nonetheless, I believe that video game ratings should be treated more like movie ratings. On any given day a five year old can walk into a store and buy Halo leagally. Mature games are more or less the equivilent of an "R" rating in movies. A person under the age of 17 should have to have an adult to allow them to purchase it.

This is all the jurisdiction needed over video games. If people want to play games they're gonna get them somehow unless there is a ban of games M and above. I believe a law like that would come to close to restricting freedom of press and media.

Lee

Thanks for you imput, WorldRuler.

I have never been a fan of comparing raw numbers against each other. Japan doesn't have nearly as many people as the United States, and their disapportionate cases of rape and sex slave blackmarket do not get factored into the statistics. But you do have a point. Japan has a low rate of murder cases compared to many other industrial countries.

Unfortunately, it is not true that they have more controversial games in regards to violence than in the United States. Japan has a law, unless it has since been dropped, that games depicting graphic death can only be sold if the deaths are of animals, creatures, demons, zombies, etc.

What is the rating for Halo? If it is "M" then, no, five year old kids can not walk into a store and purchase the game legally (in the States).

I agree with you that if would be a bad idea for a country to decide it was illegal to sell and buy "M" or higher rated games. It would be a tragic stab at freedom.

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WorldRuler

While you may be right about the jurisdiction in Japan, I am fairly confident that anyone is allowed to by any game that is not rated Adults Only. Restriction of M rated games is up to company policy, not law.